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	<title>Comments on: A Dutch solution to a Scottish problem (Part I)</title>
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	<link>http://www.insideleft.net/archives/3248</link>
	<description>the independent Scottish football blog</description>
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		<title>By: Jay Mac</title>
		<link>http://www.insideleft.net/archives/3248/comment-page-1#comment-832</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Mac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 19:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insideleft.net/?p=3248#comment-832</guid>
		<description>Where do I start! Excellent piece and some very valid points. I&#039;d love to say I have an answer but... It&#039;s a well known fact that per head of population we are one of the best club supporting nations in Europe. I don&#039;t know how much the Old Firm attendances skew the average figures but you could find that it pulls it down quite considerably. 

I guess I have two points:
1) The money side of the game. I actually believe there is enough money in Scottish football for it to function extremely well. I done a bit of research into this and found that over the last 20 years the Old Firm have spent around £321m on transfer fees alone. Of this only around £41m has been spent in Scotland - only £2m a year. It would be interesting to get a figure for the amount of money that has went out of the Scottish game by all teams, including transfers, signing-on fees, agents, etc and compare that with the amount of money invested in youth. Like it or not, the Old Firm are Scottish football (at least in the sense of influence and power) and if Scottish football is broke then its is the Old Firm&#039;s own fault. 

2) Focus. With all the reviews of our game and the coverage in the media, the one thing that keep&#039;s coming up is money. While money is important, I just worry that the focus is on how to make the Scottish game wealthy and not how to improve the quality of Scottish players. Take the English league for example. It is the wealthiest league in the world but are the English players the best in the world? I still think that despite their quality, the English players are still short in technique compared to a lot of other nations. We need to make sure any changes are to improve quality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where do I start! Excellent piece and some very valid points. I&#8217;d love to say I have an answer but&#8230; It&#8217;s a well known fact that per head of population we are one of the best club supporting nations in Europe. I don&#8217;t know how much the Old Firm attendances skew the average figures but you could find that it pulls it down quite considerably. </p>
<p>I guess I have two points:<br />
1) The money side of the game. I actually believe there is enough money in Scottish football for it to function extremely well. I done a bit of research into this and found that over the last 20 years the Old Firm have spent around £321m on transfer fees alone. Of this only around £41m has been spent in Scotland &#8211; only £2m a year. It would be interesting to get a figure for the amount of money that has went out of the Scottish game by all teams, including transfers, signing-on fees, agents, etc and compare that with the amount of money invested in youth. Like it or not, the Old Firm are Scottish football (at least in the sense of influence and power) and if Scottish football is broke then its is the Old Firm&#8217;s own fault. </p>
<p>2) Focus. With all the reviews of our game and the coverage in the media, the one thing that keep&#8217;s coming up is money. While money is important, I just worry that the focus is on how to make the Scottish game wealthy and not how to improve the quality of Scottish players. Take the English league for example. It is the wealthiest league in the world but are the English players the best in the world? I still think that despite their quality, the English players are still short in technique compared to a lot of other nations. We need to make sure any changes are to improve quality.</p>
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		<title>By: Se</title>
		<link>http://www.insideleft.net/archives/3248/comment-page-1#comment-767</link>
		<dc:creator>Se</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 19:41:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insideleft.net/?p=3248#comment-767</guid>
		<description>In terms of attendance, looking at figures from last season, the average attendance of both top divisions, the SPL and the Eredivisie, are roughly similar, with 19,827 and 20,359 respectively.

SPL (12 clubs): 15,530 
Dutch League (18 clubs): 19,789</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In terms of attendance, looking at figures from last season, the average attendance of both top divisions, the SPL and the Eredivisie, are roughly similar, with 19,827 and 20,359 respectively.</p>
<p>SPL (12 clubs): 15,530<br />
Dutch League (18 clubs): 19,789</p>
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		<title>By: Bas</title>
		<link>http://www.insideleft.net/archives/3248/comment-page-1#comment-765</link>
		<dc:creator>Bas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 22:27:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insideleft.net/?p=3248#comment-765</guid>
		<description>As a Dutchman living in Scotland I have also noticed the similarities between the state of the game in both Scotland and the Netherlands.

One major difference however is the hooliganism, which is rife around Eredivisie matches. I am trying to see as many Scottish grounds as I can by public transport, something I would not recommend doing in the Netherlands, especially not as an away fan. I love the laid back atmosphere at Scottish games in any of the four top divisions (including the SPL) and have hardly ever seen any scuffles, I can recall an incident outside St Mirren Park when Celtic were over and one after Hibs-Rangers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a Dutchman living in Scotland I have also noticed the similarities between the state of the game in both Scotland and the Netherlands.</p>
<p>One major difference however is the hooliganism, which is rife around Eredivisie matches. I am trying to see as many Scottish grounds as I can by public transport, something I would not recommend doing in the Netherlands, especially not as an away fan. I love the laid back atmosphere at Scottish games in any of the four top divisions (including the SPL) and have hardly ever seen any scuffles, I can recall an incident outside St Mirren Park when Celtic were over and one after Hibs-Rangers.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Marrs</title>
		<link>http://www.insideleft.net/archives/3248/comment-page-1#comment-764</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Marrs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 23:03:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insideleft.net/?p=3248#comment-764</guid>
		<description>A fantastic piece and a very interesting one. Thanks

Rob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A fantastic piece and a very interesting one. Thanks</p>
<p>Rob</p>
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		<title>By: Bishopville Red</title>
		<link>http://www.insideleft.net/archives/3248/comment-page-1#comment-742</link>
		<dc:creator>Bishopville Red</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 20:59:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insideleft.net/?p=3248#comment-742</guid>
		<description>Be Careful , Allan.  Real Madrid regularly find themselves in outrageous debt, and no Scottish club can count on the government simply waving away payment plans to keep them afloat.

SB</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Be Careful , Allan.  Real Madrid regularly find themselves in outrageous debt, and no Scottish club can count on the government simply waving away payment plans to keep them afloat.</p>
<p>SB</p>
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		<title>By: insideleft.net</title>
		<link>http://www.insideleft.net/archives/3248/comment-page-1#comment-741</link>
		<dc:creator>insideleft.net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 20:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insideleft.net/?p=3248#comment-741</guid>
		<description>@Allan - i think it&#039;s a move in the right direction, because I love the idea of greater club ownership by fans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Allan &#8211; i think it&#8217;s a move in the right direction, because I love the idea of greater club ownership by fans.</p>
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		<title>By: Allan</title>
		<link>http://www.insideleft.net/archives/3248/comment-page-1#comment-740</link>
		<dc:creator>Allan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 20:29:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insideleft.net/?p=3248#comment-740</guid>
		<description>Excellent blog.  I do think that lot&#039;s of clubs across Europe will find themselves in financial trouble.  Liverpool fans for example are worried about the debts which they have been landed with thanks to their owners.

You are spot on about the ownership issues surrounding this.  Do you think the proposed addoption of the &quot;spanish model&quot; of club ownership by Rangers will be a first step?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent blog.  I do think that lot&#8217;s of clubs across Europe will find themselves in financial trouble.  Liverpool fans for example are worried about the debts which they have been landed with thanks to their owners.</p>
<p>You are spot on about the ownership issues surrounding this.  Do you think the proposed addoption of the &#8220;spanish model&#8221; of club ownership by Rangers will be a first step?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: insideleft.net</title>
		<link>http://www.insideleft.net/archives/3248/comment-page-1#comment-739</link>
		<dc:creator>insideleft.net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 20:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insideleft.net/?p=3248#comment-739</guid>
		<description>I do realise I seem to be arguing against myself - it&#039;s not an easy topic to write about. 

The point, somewhat clumsily made is that Scottish footie needs to be re-built. But when you build a house, you don’t start with the roof, you start with the foundations, and this is where the Dutch system wins out for me. 

Dutch football is going through a lot of change, but the difference between here and Scotland is that the Dutch FA are not afraid to make changes when needed to fix what&#039;s wrong - something the Scottish (and the English FA) could learn from. 

Eventually the right formula will be found for prolonged success, but whatever that solution is, it requires solid foundations, and that is where the Dutch will have a head start. So, it&#039;s at the grass-roots that the rebirth of Scottish football will start. 

We instinctively think of the Ajax&#039;s of this world as the model Scottish football should emulate, the formula for success. The instructive parallel however, lies somewhere altogether different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do realise I seem to be arguing against myself &#8211; it&#8217;s not an easy topic to write about. </p>
<p>The point, somewhat clumsily made is that Scottish footie needs to be re-built. But when you build a house, you don’t start with the roof, you start with the foundations, and this is where the Dutch system wins out for me. </p>
<p>Dutch football is going through a lot of change, but the difference between here and Scotland is that the Dutch FA are not afraid to make changes when needed to fix what&#8217;s wrong &#8211; something the Scottish (and the English FA) could learn from. </p>
<p>Eventually the right formula will be found for prolonged success, but whatever that solution is, it requires solid foundations, and that is where the Dutch will have a head start. So, it&#8217;s at the grass-roots that the rebirth of Scottish football will start. </p>
<p>We instinctively think of the Ajax&#8217;s of this world as the model Scottish football should emulate, the formula for success. The instructive parallel however, lies somewhere altogether different.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bishopville Red</title>
		<link>http://www.insideleft.net/archives/3248/comment-page-1#comment-738</link>
		<dc:creator>Bishopville Red</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:16:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insideleft.net/?p=3248#comment-738</guid>
		<description>Valid points about Dutch football and its dangerous parallels with Scottish footie.    But the fact remains, if the Dutch sides are in just as much trouble as the Scottish ones, what&#039;s the point in learning from their model?  It&#039;s a different way of doing things, but seems to get you the same end result.

it can&#039;t hurt to establish and fortify a sense of community around a club - it&#039;s certainly a better cultural code than trying to act like big, less-personal businesses, but a bigger population (16 M to 5M), more usable land and different approach to space and community (give Brilliant Orange a go - probably even more significant for someone in teh thick of it) all point to a Dutch advantage.

And yet they&#039;re STILL in the same boat as the Scottish.

To me it looks like more n d more Scottish teams have to give up th ghost and become part-time outfits.  Anything less than Premiership football should be legislated as part time leagues.  Perhaps clubs could supplement playing salaries by encouraging coaching courses and working with the community to bring football back to the kids, who seem to be flocking away from the sport in Scotland.

SB</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Valid points about Dutch football and its dangerous parallels with Scottish footie.    But the fact remains, if the Dutch sides are in just as much trouble as the Scottish ones, what&#8217;s the point in learning from their model?  It&#8217;s a different way of doing things, but seems to get you the same end result.</p>
<p>it can&#8217;t hurt to establish and fortify a sense of community around a club &#8211; it&#8217;s certainly a better cultural code than trying to act like big, less-personal businesses, but a bigger population (16 M to 5M), more usable land and different approach to space and community (give Brilliant Orange a go &#8211; probably even more significant for someone in teh thick of it) all point to a Dutch advantage.</p>
<p>And yet they&#8217;re STILL in the same boat as the Scottish.</p>
<p>To me it looks like more n d more Scottish teams have to give up th ghost and become part-time outfits.  Anything less than Premiership football should be legislated as part time leagues.  Perhaps clubs could supplement playing salaries by encouraging coaching courses and working with the community to bring football back to the kids, who seem to be flocking away from the sport in Scotland.</p>
<p>SB</p>
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		<title>By: insideleft.net</title>
		<link>http://www.insideleft.net/archives/3248/comment-page-1#comment-737</link>
		<dc:creator>insideleft.net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:12:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insideleft.net/?p=3248#comment-737</guid>
		<description>@Kevin, lol, sorry to disappoint :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Kevin, lol, sorry to disappoint <img src='http://www.insideleft.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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